Wednesday, August 03, 2005
Homosexuality and Judaism (Coversion Camps II)
The below posted Coversion Camps discussion was cross posted at DovBear as a guest poster.
In the comment section Toby Katz made the following comment:
"What if a person was born with really strong pedophilia urges or serial-killer urges? Would anyone really CHOOSE to be a serial killer? I mean, he was just born with those urges, does anyone really expect him to be able to suppress such powerful inborn urges?"
Toby Katz | 07.31.05 - 3:30 am | #
The entire discussion ends with a lengthy response from me. But I have been thinking about the discussion and the points made by Toby and others and wished to re-address this issue on my own forum.
First I would like to address Toby's statement above in a similar way to how I had addressed it previously.
The issue of pedophilia and serial-killing are in some ways similar and in some ways different from that of homosexuality. The 'urges' of a pedophile are a 'corruption' of the sexual urges that we all feel. The pedophile, for any number of reasons, get a 'thrill' from children that a 'normal' adult doesn't. That being said I don't believe there is a cure for pedophilia. A pedophile may be strong enough to suppress the urge and live a 'normal' life, but I don't believe there is a cure. I feel the same thing is true of both homosexuality and sociopathic behavior that leads to serial murders. There have been numberous studies on both 'disorders' that have shown that various 'abnormalities' in the brain. I am not sure whether this means anything. I don't believe that everyone with those 'abnormalities' will necessarily be gay or a serial killer. I do believe there are many factors in the 'creation' of a serial killer or the developement of one's sexual preferences be they 'abnormal' in the case of homosexuality or pedophilia, or 'normal' as heterosexuality is termed. I also believe that one's understanding of the biblical prohibition against homosexuality depends on how one believes the Torah originated.
At the time of both the Roman and Greek military might, as well as other ancient cultures, it was encouraged that the most basic military unit (a tandem) was to be intimate. The reasoning was that these cultures believed that a person was more likely to fight hard for someone they 'loved' as opposed to some schmo they were just assigned to.
I am not really sure whether there is any validity to this, don't really think that is the issue for discussion here. I will say that I fell that this was one of the reasons for the prohibition, whether of divine origins or human.
So here is my contention. There are different ways for one to think through an issue. This issue tends to polarize people because of what is perceived as the normal state of existence in modern society.
I guess that if a single individual finds they wish to 'go straight' and attend on of these programs that is fine. It should be their decision. I don't believe that my personal feelings on the issue play a part in the issue.
I find the concept of these camps to be rather disgusting. To force someone to 'change' because of anothers personal belief is rather repugnant and dismissive of that person.
In the final analysis I have to say that I do believe that people who are gay have to come to peace with themselves. My only job is to follow G-D's laws to my best ability. In a secular society though, MY preference is that everyone mind there own bedroom. I won't discuss what I do, and don't you tell me what you do. That way we can all be happy in the privacy of our own home.
In the comment section Toby Katz made the following comment:
"What if a person was born with really strong pedophilia urges or serial-killer urges? Would anyone really CHOOSE to be a serial killer? I mean, he was just born with those urges, does anyone really expect him to be able to suppress such powerful inborn urges?"
Toby Katz | 07.31.05 - 3:30 am | #
The entire discussion ends with a lengthy response from me. But I have been thinking about the discussion and the points made by Toby and others and wished to re-address this issue on my own forum.
First I would like to address Toby's statement above in a similar way to how I had addressed it previously.
The issue of pedophilia and serial-killing are in some ways similar and in some ways different from that of homosexuality. The 'urges' of a pedophile are a 'corruption' of the sexual urges that we all feel. The pedophile, for any number of reasons, get a 'thrill' from children that a 'normal' adult doesn't. That being said I don't believe there is a cure for pedophilia. A pedophile may be strong enough to suppress the urge and live a 'normal' life, but I don't believe there is a cure. I feel the same thing is true of both homosexuality and sociopathic behavior that leads to serial murders. There have been numberous studies on both 'disorders' that have shown that various 'abnormalities' in the brain. I am not sure whether this means anything. I don't believe that everyone with those 'abnormalities' will necessarily be gay or a serial killer. I do believe there are many factors in the 'creation' of a serial killer or the developement of one's sexual preferences be they 'abnormal' in the case of homosexuality or pedophilia, or 'normal' as heterosexuality is termed. I also believe that one's understanding of the biblical prohibition against homosexuality depends on how one believes the Torah originated.
At the time of both the Roman and Greek military might, as well as other ancient cultures, it was encouraged that the most basic military unit (a tandem) was to be intimate. The reasoning was that these cultures believed that a person was more likely to fight hard for someone they 'loved' as opposed to some schmo they were just assigned to.
I am not really sure whether there is any validity to this, don't really think that is the issue for discussion here. I will say that I fell that this was one of the reasons for the prohibition, whether of divine origins or human.
So here is my contention. There are different ways for one to think through an issue. This issue tends to polarize people because of what is perceived as the normal state of existence in modern society.
I guess that if a single individual finds they wish to 'go straight' and attend on of these programs that is fine. It should be their decision. I don't believe that my personal feelings on the issue play a part in the issue.
I find the concept of these camps to be rather disgusting. To force someone to 'change' because of anothers personal belief is rather repugnant and dismissive of that person.
In the final analysis I have to say that I do believe that people who are gay have to come to peace with themselves. My only job is to follow G-D's laws to my best ability. In a secular society though, MY preference is that everyone mind there own bedroom. I won't discuss what I do, and don't you tell me what you do. That way we can all be happy in the privacy of our own home.
// posted by Little Wolf @ Wednesday, August 03, 2005 
